Women Criminal Defense Attorneys: Interview with Karen Popp
This week I had the privilege of talking with Karen Popp, a partner at Sidley Austin in Washington, D.C., and Co-Chair of their global White Collar: Government Litigation & Investigations group, as well as a member of the firm Executive Committee. Karen is a superstar in the white-collar defense field and has an international reputation as a go-to lawyer when corporations or individuals find themselves subject to investigation or charges. Karen has an impressive pedigree of experience, which includes both government and private sector work. She was an Assistant United States Attorney in the EDNY, a lawyer in the Office of Legal Counsel at the U.S. Department of Justice, and Associate White House Counsel to President Clinton. She has been named one of the Top 250 Women in Litigation and was recently praised in The Legal 500 US (2012) for her expertise. Benchmark Litigation named her a Litigation Star for her White-Collar practice and she has been honored for her efforts on retention and advancement of women in law. She is Chair and Co-founder of the Women's White Collar Defense Association and has been instrumental in changing the landscape for women in white-collar defense. Karen is a shining example of what can be accomplished when women are willing to help other women in this profession.
You have been a driving force behind women in the white-collar field, organizing and creating a powerful national and international network. Can you tell us about the Women’s White Collar Defense Association, the history behind it, and what inspired you to organize women in this field?
The Women’s White Collar Defense Association is a collection of women white-collar defense attorneys and consultants both nationally and internationally. Its focus is networking, education, and support for women in the white-collar defense field. The history behind the group dates back to 1999, when I first left the White House and joined Sidley as a partner. At the same time, my good friend Beth Wilkinson was leaving the Department of Justice and joining Latham as a partner. We both attended the ABA White Collar Conference that year and noticed there weren’t very many women present. There were virtually none on the panels and in fact not very many in attendance at all. We both had just come out of the US Government, where there were a lot of very strong women in positions of leadership who acted as valuable mentors, so it was quite a contrast to what we had been used to. It was during that conference that Beth and I first discussed organizing women in the field. We approached a handful of D.C. women that we knew working in the white-collar field. At that time it was probably less than ten of us. We had our first official meeting in D.C., and if I remember correctly Attorney General Janet Reno was the guest speaker.
I had friends in New York that I discussed the idea with too, as well as women in Boston and Los Angeles. We eventually teamed up with a small group of women meeting in New York and the women from Boston and Los Angeles. I think it was at the ABA white-collar conference in either 2000 or 2001 that we decided to get the women together during the ABA conference. We started talking about the fact that we shouldn’t just be local groups; we really should be collaborating across cities. We had a breakfast together at the ABA conference. This was also part of the basis for how the idea of “spa day” developed. It was a chance for women from across the country to meet other women during the annual ABA white-collar conference. I think it was in 2002 that we had our first official spa day. We had less than 20 women attend that event – but we had folks from several cities. This was the first real structured attempt at getting women from different cities together, and just to give you an idea of how much it has grown, this year over 135 women attended Spa Day from more than a dozen cities!
Our local D.C. group really took off as well; we started off with 10 women and are now over 160. And some of the other early cities have really grown, including the New York group and the Boston group. The Boston group has provided the leadership in the development of our Spa Day event. At one of the Spa Days a few years ago, we talked about expanding the group into other cities. Thereafter, groups have been launched in Philadelphia, Miami, Chicago, Dallas, Phoenix, L.A., San Francisco, and London. The energy level that has gone into expanding our group in the various cities is overwhelming. There are efforts to launch in Hong Kong, Nashville, Birmingham, and even Paris in the near future. And now we are about to launch a website that will include our 600+ women members who focus their practices in the white-collar field both nationally and internationally. The website is really going to allow us to build connections between these cities, beyond Spa Day once a year. This whole initiative has been a grassroots effort by women that simply want to help other women.
Mary Jo White, who has been a supporter of this group, likes to quote Madeleine Albright who said that “There is a special place in hell for women that don’t help other women.” It has been heartwarming to see so much positive energy go into women helping other women, especially in a field that has traditionally been so male-dominated. It’s hard to make it as a lawyer, it is especially hard as a white-collar lawyer, and it’s just nice to have people who are in the same boat and who are willing to help you. I was fortunate enough to be surrounded by very strong women during my U.S. Government tenure who not only served as role models, but also helped those of us coming up behind them. We simply wanted to bring that spirit to the private sector.
What do you think has been the impact of these local and national networks for women in the white-collar field?
To be a successful white-collar lawyer, you have to be a really good lawyer, but you also have to be a good business generator. You have to get your name in the right place at the right time to pick up new work. Thus, this is a field driven by referrals. This group has really allowed for a structure to facilitate networking so that women can refer business to each other. And what has been really exciting is seeing women wanting to refer business to each other. There are white-collar cases all over the US, and now the field is growing in other parts of the world as well. To think that this group allows us to collaborate with women internationally is unbelievable. The enthusiasm of the women in the Association is the foundation for the group’s rapid growth.
It’s no secret that women are really good lawyers in and out of the courtroom. So the driving issue behind an organization such as the Women’s White Collar Defense Association hasn’t been only about skill, it has also been about how to get your name on a list that would be reviewed by potential clients in selecting a defense attorney. I think that the women’s white-collar group has increased the opportunities for women to be considered for new business.
I have seen a huge increase in the number of women in the white-collar practice area since 1999. I certainly am not saying this women’s group deserves the credit, but I hope organizing women in the field has the effect of balancing the gender disparity that has existed for a long time. The white-collar practice has exploded after Enron and in the last twelve years we have seen tremendous growth in this area of the law. When I came out of the White House in 1999, very few large firms had a white-collar practice group, and obviously things have changed dramatically. White-collar defense has become a very popular area of the law for law students and there are larger numbers of women graduating law school, so that has played a role in the increased number of women in the field. I do think having our group as a resource for women that are either in the field or thinking of entering the field has helped make women feel like they can succeed.
What impact has the Women White Collar Defense Association had on your personal business?
I have personally benefited tremendously in developing business and also in developing friendships. I have received business referrals from these women and I have given business to these women. I have personal satisfaction when I give a piece of business away, and obviously there is an element of personal success when I receive a referral. Very early on in the formation of the D.C. group, there was a woman who was approached by the then-head of compliance for a major company looking for help in a matter outside of the U.S. This woman recommended me for the matter. That client, who is now the general counsel of that company, is a very significant client of mine today. And over the last ten years I have developed a really strong professional relationship with that General Counsel. To this day, the lawyer that referred this matter to me is always on the top of my list when I am referring business.
When I arrived at Sidley we embarked on a program to recruit, retain, and promote women at the firm, and I feel fortunate to have been a major part of that. I think, more broadly speaking, that being active in efforts to promote both women and overall diversity in law, even outside the white-collar area, has helped me tremendously. My commitment to helping other women has been very satisfying—it’s great to see so many women shattering the proverbial glass ceiling.